Welcome to Mind on the Line

🎙️ Mind on the Line Podcast

Every day, first responders answer the call.

Police officers. Firefighters. Paramedics. Dispatchers. Nurses. Veterans.

They respond to emergencies, witness tragedy, carry the weight of critical incidents, and continue showing up when others need them most.

But who is there for them?

Mind on the Line was created to have the conversations that often happen behind closed doors—the conversations about stress, trauma, burnout, resilience, recovery, peer support, PTSD, critical incidents, and the emotional realities of serving others.

This podcast brings together first responders, clinicians, peer supporters, recovery professionals, and subject matter experts to share real experiences, practical resources, and honest discussions about what it means to carry the job long after the call is over.

Whether you're wearing a badge, riding an ambulance, answering the radio, serving in healthcare, supporting a department, or standing beside someone who does, this podcast is for you.

Our mission is simple:

Reduce stigma. Encourage conversation. Share resources. Build resilience. Save careers, relationships, and lives.

Because strength isn't carrying everything alone.

It's knowing when to reach out.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Every day they answer the call. They see what most people will never see. They carry moments that most people will never understand. But when the call ends, who is there for them?

SPEAKER_00 0:16

What's your emergency?

SPEAKER_01 0:50

Sitting next to me is a friend of mine, Mr. Scott Pavlock. We've been friends for about 35 years, another first responder, career first responder, and uh co-host in various episodes of Mind on the Line. Welcome, brother.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

Welcome. Hey, thanks, brother. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me here.

SPEAKER_01 1:08

Our pleasure. Um this podcast is dedicated to the wellness and well-being and peer support of first responders. First responders have a tremendous amount of stress that they endure from all different kinds of scenarios uh that they that they encounter, regardless. Police, fire, EMS, nurses, telecommunicators, veterans. Regardless of the job, the the the job and the mission, the stress really remains the same. Critical incident stress is real. Critical incident stress really piles on first responders. It takes its toll. The longer you stay in these jobs, the longer the stress uh builds up. And it builds up in layers. Sometimes it comes off in pieces, sometimes it comes off in chunks. But either way, this is the podcast is dedicated to recognizing first responder stress, the wellness and peer support resources that we have and some tips and tricks to keep your safe, to keep your mind safe. So again, welcome to Mind on the Line. I'd like to start with uh I'd like to start with a background. And really, this episode is just an intro episode to talk about myself and and Scott and other co-hosts that will be here uh on other episodes and talk about their backgrounds in what they do. So briefly, um I've been in an you know, John Ott, I live in out just outside of Philadelphia, I've been in emergency services now for about 11 years. I was uh military for 18 years, so I've had a number of different exposures to critical incident stress. Um I really like I've I've liked no matter in a military capacity, or if I was in the capacity of a first responder, either as a firefighter or on the ambulance as an EMT. Those uh kinds of jobs really meant a lot. And they still do because I still actively serve as a firefighter in EMT as a first responder in a volunteer company in f just outside of Philadelphia. Um I've had my share of exposures to trauma, both in the military and as a first responder. And uh this work, which never seems to get mentioned, which never seems to get enough attention, just uh is uh uh quite frankly the forgotten work of the job. It's just never included. So the purpose of our podcast is really to bring awareness to first responder stress to critical incident stress, the the um the in the the stress that first responders endure and to provide either a forum or resources or a place where we can talk about first responder stress and how we can combat that stress or how we can recognize that stress and then what we can do about it, right? So um, you know, in subsequent uh in subsequent episodes, we'll talk about what critical incident stress is, we'll talk about how to recognize it, we'll talk about the uh impact and effects it has on the body, the mind, the soul, and you'll hear that from various guests here. So uh I served 18 years in the military as well, combat veteran. So I've had my exposure both on the battlefield and on the first responder scene as well. So to my right, as indicated, Mr. Scott Pavlov, 35-year friend of mine. Great for you to be here. I'll let him uh go through, police officer, um, career military, and uh all around, all around good guy. But as a first responder, this is one of the one of the guys you'd want when uh you you dial 911 or whatever situation you're in, this is a guy you'd want to be on that other end of service. Scott, you want to introduce yourself, a little bit about your background?

SPEAKER_00 5:05

Yeah, so as indicated, my name is Scott. Um, I entered law enforcement. Uh, first I entered the military in 1984, fresh young 18-year-old where I served in the infantry on active duty. Uh, while in the infantry, I knew that I wanted to be a police officer. I come from a law enforcement family. My father, having served over 40 years as the chief of police in the state of Illinois. Um uh, once I got out of the military, my exposure was limited. I had some hazardous duty time. And to be quite honest to a lot of the the listeners, my my combat time is relatively limited within the military. The exposure to critical incident events and death and the things we're going to talk about in the upcoming episodes was a lot. Um, but I got out of the military in 1986, took a break from it in 1987. I was hired as a police officer uh in a suburban suburb of Chicago. I attended basic training like all the rest of us, and I always like to note in basic training. You'll hear this theme throughout our episodes. I remember the the military police academy uh when I attended there. I remember the first thing I was told, I think on day one was just so you know, welcome all to this job. We're glad you could be hired. By the way, you're gonna be divorced, you're gonna be an alcoholic, you may be a drug user, some of you may end up in jail, and some of you are either going to kill yourself or somebody else. Uh, let's get started with the academy. Um, and that's important to what we're gonna be talking about because that was day one for me as a law enforcement officer, officer, excuse me, with with the background of the military where I survived what I thought were some interesting situations, and suddenly now I'm in this new field and and we kicked it off. Uh, the military I served a total of 32 years. I had the honor of working for some great bosses and with some great people, such as you, John. Uh, I managed to be blessed with the job of command sergeant major of a of the Great Lakes, uh then training division of the U.S. Army, where I retired uh working for a general officer and a staff of people and some 10,000 soldiers spread across the country. Uh while doing that, I worked through my police career, um, which somewhat suffered because of the military. But during my police career, I worked through all the facets of a police department. I've been a patrol officer, I have been a traffic officer, a bicycle officer, a motor officer. Uh I got paid to ride Harleys. Um, greatest, greatest therapy in the world. Um, I was able to serve in different units, and then I eventually made sergeant where I was able to be uh a patrol sergeant, a detective sergeant, run various different missions for the department. I left police work retiring in 2020, the first time, and just prior to that, I had exited the military in 2016. Uh I couldn't be without the badge. Um, as did my father, who literally died at the end of his job uh career, the stroke that killed him at his desk at work. Uh, I knew I wanted to stay in the job. So I moved to Wisconsin and then I started over as a rookie on a department, and then the Lord blessed me or cursed me again. I'm still not sure how I feel about it. I had was able to be a public safety director and chief of police in uh the state of Wisconsin for a smaller agency, but again, having been an EMT, I wasn't a firefighter. I managed a public safety department and I didn't know about one-third of what I was doing. I had no idea. Again, I had good people. Um, so that that's that's my career numbers wise. And the things that I had the pleasure of doing, I've done just about everything in those fields and and love every minute of it, minus those bad times we're gonna talk about.

SPEAKER_01 8:46

Yeah, and you know, that's uh that's quite a career, and of course, I've known you since over the course of your your career, shortly after you you were a rookie patrolman. Um, you know, right uh right back when you started. Uh you know, uh and you and I have have in teaching critical incident stress management and encountering veterans and making presentations about uh responder wellness, peer support. I've heard you talk about that rucksack story. And I I really love that story because it really illustrates the impact of uh repeated exposure to critical incident stress, to to exposure to critical incidents that just really add, well, I won't uh I won't steal that thunder, just add weight to an already weighted pack that you're you're carrying. So if you wouldn't mind, go through that. Tell our listeners what that what that means and go through that story because I think it's such a powerful story that uh that we'll be able to reference back in you know in subsequent episodes.

SPEAKER_00 9:54

Yeah, so the the rucksack story came out of uh treatment, help that I needed as a result of many years. Uh I guess what I would say to the first responders listening, I was a rookie, I've been a veteran, then I was a rookie again. And during those years, uh one of the things I I think about sometimes when I check my sanity, and I don't know if I am, is I realize I have seen so many dead bodies. Literally, people die in front of me, people that that died shortly before I got there. Um, conducted those investigations, suicide, homicides, just that aspect of the job alone. I don't, I remember the first, and I remember the last. In between, all the rest of that got put away somewhere. So at one point I had my own crash and burn, something you'll hear people talk about in future episodes of this. I had my own and I reached that point that no officer wants to get, but I will I will speak as a former tactical officer, SWAT officer, negotiator. I'm here to tell you that I hit the floor and I was suicidal. Uh, it it was a it was a moment I I didn't see it coming. I I can say I did now, but I can't say then. What what happened and where the ruck stop sack story developed was during the course of recovery of this, uh one of my mentors, helpers, coaches, you can put all the titles on him. I was explaining this story about how um, and I knew this from the military because uh rucksack is a backpack in the US military that as an infantryman I carried Afghanistan and Iraq war is going on. There's a picture out there of a uh uh one soldier, and he is down on a knee and he is wearing a rucksack or a backpack. Uh, I estimates from various sources say that rucksack was 135 to 165 pounds of weight. The soldier is clearly in that picture struggling to sit on one knee. He's exhausted. And I I was able to get some personal background on that picture and learn that's exactly what it was. He was trying to get his next step. So in the rucksack theory story explanation, it's this if you take an empty backpack that you can get at any store, any soldier's ever carried, any tack officer has carried, it's empty. It's on your back, it you put the straps on it, you feel it, but it doesn't weigh much. Yeah. What I like to do when I teach, and as it was taught to me, the rucksack story, uh, we're here at Haymarket, which is something you're going to hear more about. Um, we talk to the people that are here, the first responders, and I like to hand rocks out in the room. And I'll walk in the room because they don't think I'm crazy enough for my introductions to them. I'll give them all rocks of varying sizes. And then I will walk around the room and I will ask the people, both those that know me and know the story, and those that don't, can you please place uh that rock you have in front of me? That that that rock's a traffic accident where somebody got injured. The next rock is uh is a domestic I went to that was pretty severe. Oh, yeah, that big rock you're gonna give me. That's a that's a child molesting case.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

It's a little bit bigger rock that's a little heavier.

SPEAKER_00 12:58

And ultimately the divorces and the other titles I put on these rocks. What the people realize as I'm doing this is they see the rucksack get bigger and get heavier. Sometimes I'll ask people to put that rucksack on and see how heavy it is. But wait, it started off light. How did it get heavy? Let's refer that to first responders, firefighters, EMTs, you take your doctors, nurses, uh, any of those people. And what they do is they go to calls throughout their career. And each one's a rock. And when you put that rock in, even the bigger rocks, you it it doesn't put you down on a knee. You add more and more and you and you carry it and you carry it and you carry it till that infantry soldier had to drop on a knee. I dropped on a knee with a gun in my hand. Because the rucksack, the backpack, in my eyes, in my mind, had become so heavy I could no longer carry it.

SPEAKER_01 13:50

So at that point, because of the repeated exposure, it became overwhelming. Intrusive thoughts?

SPEAKER_00 13:56

Um, I at that point, when it when I realized it was overwhelming, was when I was curled up in a ball, didn't care about anything. I wanted to take my own life. And the reason I wanted to take my life was I wanted the pain to stop. And I tell people when I talk to them about suicide and about that. I'm not proud of being there. I was gonna do a nasty, horrible thing. I have a daughter who's who's now a military officer and son-in-law that's in special forces, and I've told them the story. And it's very shameful for me to say it because I have to look at them and say, no, I didn't care at that point. It wasn't that I didn't care. Everything was blocked out. The pain was so bad. There were enough deaths, there's reasons this happened or that got me there, that all of a sudden I realized I couldn't go on. Please stop it. Now, what I will say is that landed at the right time. I'm a Christian man. My beliefs are that the good Lord was there. A couple of phone calls from people from a northern Illinois critical incident stress management team, uh, a particular person who I adore, a former commander in law enforcement, tactical SWAT guy. Uh, I got a phone call from him while I was sitting there. And he said, Help's on the way. And that help came in the form of another member of the team who happened to be my own sister, who was a social worker.

SPEAKER_01 15:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:13

And I was picked up off the floor. There was a lot of talking, some craziness to it. Uh, but then I learned about the rucksack through the therapy that I then went through because I put aside my ego. I put aside uh my own weaknesses, my own being a veteran officer and military, saying, I'm too badass for this. Yeah. And I wasn't too badass. It was destroying me. And I was about ready to, in essence, end my family as I knew it. So as these podcasts go on, it's just something I want the listeners and as a co-host, I want them to understand even the strong go down. Um, and we uh speaking for you as the host, uh as the host, we hope that that these podcasts will bring about the the different events that happen to people in different fields that we're gonna talk about. And then how, like me, how they got help, and then do what we do, John, now is we use that and this podcast and uh resource centers, Haymarket, where we're at right now, and and others, cornerstone is one that comes to mind with one of the people we're gonna interview later. That we take those those organizations take first responders and make them in a dignified way, regain their strengths, regain the ability in most cases to go on with the job, to go on and save other lives and not put that gun back to their head.

SPEAKER_01 16:42

Well, that's uh that's really important. And of course, I've been with you on some on a you know, most of that journey as well.

SPEAKER_00 16:49

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 16:50

Uh privileged to be called uh your friend, brother, uh privileged to be uh call you a brother, and I will tell you that uh I've admired you over the course of your career, especially in first, you know, first responders, being a first responder, and I'm honored and privileged to be doing this work with you. So um it's mutual brother. Yeah, I I I really do, and thank you. And if you're listening to this podcast and you're in crisis or you feel that you have no hope, we have resources that are listed in the comments section of this podcast. Um, we also have uh we also have uh our contact information to get a hold of myself and Scott and others who you'll meet in subsequent episodes that are willing to be there when you call, be there when you're in your time and need and help. All you need to do is just pick up a phone and and and call someone. And that's that's really the that's really the piece of it. But there's a lot more to it about self-awareness, when you know, awareness of when it's happening. So for our listeners, we thank you uh for this uh for for listening. This is just a short intro about our podcast and what we're doing, and uh, we'll see you in the next episode.